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Video: Rentals with Andrew Henderson


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James sits down with Andrew Henderson from Professionals Mermaid Beach to talk all things rentals.

In this interview James and Andrew chat about:

  • The difference between long-term and short-term leasing
  • Self managed vs. property managed rentals
  • The role of a property manager
  • The different types of rental forms
  • Plus so much more!

Read on below for the full transcription of our interview:

– Good day, everybody, James from here. And today is our absolute privilege to talk to Mr. Andrew Henderson. Andrew is the principal of Professional Mermaid Beach. As well as being the principal of the real estate agency, he sits as a director for the professionals Real Estate Group, and he’s the chairman of the Gold Coast zone of the Real Estate Institute of Queensland, the REIQ. He’s also written two books. One of them is here, which I’m very happy to have a copy of, and, is an award-winning real estate agent. Andrew, thank you for coming in.

– Thank you for having me here today.

– Our pleasure. So I’ve done my best but I thought in your own words, if you could give us a quick CV in under one minute on your past and how you got here.

– Yeah, with my past. I really, my first life is from banking, from then I moved into the real estate industry of which have been for the last 17 or 18 years. And I’ve been running my own business since 2007. Since then have taken on a few other jobs. I’m now director of professional real estate group Australia, and also the REIQ’s own chair. So kinda of the hats are on there, to not only put my skill out there to the industry, but also give me a little bit back to something that’s been very kind to me.

– Yeah, it’s a pretty solid hat rack.

– Yeah, it’s a solid hat rack. Yeah, you think the juggling a lot of balls, but in the end, it’s the good I think that you can come from getting behind the REIQ being a peak body or the professionals being a major pie in the residential market. To have your influence on where you see the direction of the industry going?

– Well in saying that, so you came from the banking sector into the real estate sector? Were there differences? Was it a hard thing to do to make that transfer. Say somebody at home wants to move into real estate?

– Yeah, I suppose with the banking sector is very much regulated. Yeah, working for Big Four bank, everything has its place and it’s in that place for a reason. Real estate is one of those industries that has significant amount of flexibility in it, especially for a salesperson or someone in the property management. So I can even have a degree of flexibility nowadays. So that’s where real estate can be more, you need to be more disciplined, because then basically it’s not that nine to five job.

– Yeah, so you’re dictating your own terms?

– Yeah, you dictate your own terms. Because with real estate, you’re gonna be available when your clients are available. And generally that’s after hours, before hours and weekends. So significant difference between banking, which is traditionally Monday to Friday, nine to five. So that was a big shift, but not really a shift that was hard, especially if you can like that freedom that does come with the industry.

– Okay, well, we’re happy you made the change.

– I’m happy about the change too.

– With the Royal Commission and all of these things that have come up since that time. So initially, we like to discuss the basic parameters of our definitions of terms. And we’ve got some relatively simple ones for you. This is for people that are watching. Hopefully it’ll give them a different lease on these phrases. Are you able to explain permanent letting for me? And then we’ll go into sort of the, what is the difference between permanent letting and then the shorter term letting scenario? Is your holiday letting, short term?

– Yeah, so permanent letting is where you have a tenant that’s on a lease term of six months, 12 months, or sometimes into years?

– Yeah.

– So that becomes their home. Generally all those homes are unfurnished. Yeah, that becomes a point of residence where you short term letting is very much towards your holiday accommodation side of it. So people stay for one day, two days, a week. So that’s the difference. It’s more of a tourist market, your holiday market or your very short term.

– Okay, and then self managed property versus bringing on a property manager. I know that you may have a stronger opinion on this, because it’s the the sector that you manage the most of the offers. So what are sort of the pros and cons of each of that?

– Okay, so there’s nothing stopping anybody having their own self managed property to look after, right? It can be done.

– Yeah.

– And with that is that, but there are challenges that come with that. And probably part of the reason that business grows is that self managing of residential properties is becoming more difficult. Government red tape basically gives us a job, because that red tape makes it very difficult for the average person estate to manage their own job, their own finances, our family, plus, and all the red tape that goes with it. So that’s where the benefits lie. It is so when it comes to someone self managing it is how are they at rent collection? How are they chasing up a risk? Can they evict the family who falls behind in arrears? Can they defend themselves at QCAT? Can they keep appropriate documentation for ledgers for rent payment, which is a part of the Act and a self managed, you’ve still got to comply with the Act like a real estate agent does. So really that every real estate agent does you as a self managed person still needs to do exactly the same and hence, that’s where the challenge comes in. Where in the past self manage was a lot easier, as time goes on, it becomes a very difficult challenge. And with the busy world that people have, also the time to be able to do it you know what I mean. Where, on the other hand, you give it to a property manager, they’ve got the expertise, they’ve got the time that they deal with it day to day, potentially they are one step away emotional because when they’re in an owner-tenant relationship is very close, often can also be, to the negativity of the owner. If a tenant comes up with a sob story or something along those lines, and with rental tendencies, nowadays, the Act is very strict when it comes to, non compliance.

– Yeah,

– And that’s where people dealing with it as a mind job, doing it every day of the week, obviously, potentially have more really access to knowledge to be able to make sure they comply.

– And access to a network. So say something breaks down or something stops working, then they’re already on the ground they’re a phone call away for the tenant and they can handle that issue.

– Our resources are one of those things. Especially tradesmen.

– Yeah.

– Tradesmen can be difficult to get there, in a short space of time. If you’ve got a good relationship with tradesmen, they’ll always bump you to the top of the queue where you’re dealing with tradesmen very regularly. So hence be able to get a tat fixed or glazing down, we can normally get it done in a very short period of time. Whereas an owner, as an individual, often it’s going to the website, to Google then to try and get a tradesman, are they appropriate or qualified? Are they appropriately insured? All these things that potentially don’t really seem like very big deals, but if the wrong person the wrong trade, the wrong glass is installed, it cannot be repercussions down the track.

– Yeah that’s all very sound advice. I would agree with it wholeheartedly. I mean if somebody is in a position, then that is their role, and that’s their job permanently, then they’ll facilitate and hopefully assist you. But then everything’s negotiable as well, on Target? So then if the owner wishes to negotiate, say a fee, then I’m sure that there’s a conversation that occurs.

– Yeah there is. Every owner has got different demands that they have. Some owners that live overseas, wants you to pay their rates to a Body Corporate, pretty well. I’ve got some owners we pay land tax for. Cause it gets to a stage, they’ve got big positions that they’re busy, that don’t have time for that, they wanna sit forget property management. I’ve got other owners that really just want that, rent collection basis, cause they have realized that that’s the softest part. If your tenant comes up with the sob story of where they’re gonna give in, but they like to do their own maintenance, We’ve got some other owners that it’s a bit of a mixture is that they like to pay their rates, water and Body Corporate, but then when asked to do routines and rent collection, so we can incorporate it, basically, or they’re on a fixed fee, or they’re on a fee for service basis.

– It’s a very, it’s an interesting part that I don’t think a lot of people would factor in to the process cause you assume that in your nature, you’re somebody who would pay someone every week, then it’s not something that you factor in, to expecting a tenant might not actually do that. But unfortunately, it’s a situation that occurs far too often.

– It does, and then with a tenant not paying the rent, your bills still accumulate. You’ve still gotta pay your rates, you’ve still gotta pay the water, you’ve still gotta pay your land tax, those don’t stop. But if a tenant stops paying rent, obviously, then you don’t have the income to go with it and providing free accommodation for someone is really not a landlord’s job. And that unfortunately, with private rentals I’ve seen in the past too often, becomes the reason then we get involved and take over management is its owners are being taken advantage of.

– Yep, and then you’ve got the RCA, the Residential Tenancy Authority, is that correct?

– That’s the one.

– And then they have certain guidelines, I assume. So say you wish to move people on and sell your home, and you don’t do it in the correct parameters, I assume that not having that knowledge can also turn around and bite you.

– Yeah, the RTA obviously have the law that they stick to the law. The RTA are a little bit more sympathetic towards a tenant. If an owner serves a paperwork and it’s one day out, generally will be totally rejected. If you go to the RTA or the QCAT and the tenant happens to be one day with a paperwork, do you know that they’ll be forgiven? So when it comes to the crunch, is that you’ve really gotta have expert advice and do it properly and do it to the letter of the law. Cause any left opening gives the tenant either stays longer rent free ’cause their court system is clogged up. So the time you then get another court date, you’re given another six or eight weeks, just another six or eight weeks of that rent and it goes on in cycles from there. So paperwork is important. Following Act is ultimate guidance when it comes to it and the RTA have some very heavy fines and can do some court proceedings should they wish to, on their side, which is all taxpayer funded, where a landlord might make an innocent mistake then has to go and get legal representation in–

– And then just starts that process that can be avoided if possible, it can be avoided.

– Or communications that the big part of it, and paperwork is a big part of it, is making sure everything is documented, everything’s in writing, those things make a big difference. Because if you’ve got that backup, if you do need to prove your position, it makes your evidence a lot stronger than trying to remember a phone call that happened six to 12 months prior.

– Yeah, very valuable advice, and thank you for that. So now I suppose we’re gonna move on to talking about the market and the marketplace in general, talk about the Gold Coast market.

– Yeah.

– And then the other processes that a property manager would have to fulfill?

– Yeah.

– So I thought we’d start with, what is the role of a property manager? I know that’s pretty broad. But if we can sort of what does it encapsulate?

– Or I suppose probably take one step back. Property management is probably more of a people manager than a property manager. When it comes to really the depth of looking after someone’s property, it’s the person involved with that, the person, the owner, as the client, or the person is a tenant as the client. So that’s probably the most important relationship of it. ‘Cause the property itself is bricks and mortar or whatever it be made of, it really comes down to the personalities and the people involved is the biggest part of it. But to go, I suppose into more of the the job role. It’s making sure the tenant goes into a safe clean property that’s fit for occupation.

– Yeah.

– Making sure that the rent’s collected and appropriately accounted for, and then appropriately dispersed to the owner. Making sure maintenance is undertaken in a timely manner. Make sure routine inspections are undertaken in a timely, in a regular manner. To make sure the house is being looked after by the tenant or any potential maintenance issues that the tenant might be aware of, to be able to make sure the house is sound and stable. Then it goes I suppose further into it, the process of the moving the tenant on. If they’re not paying the rent and looking after it, or tenants do change the type of property they want all of a sudden to have a family and they might wanna move into a house. So then it’s that whole process of the vacate. Going into the inspection, does it meet the way that the tenant went in and taking away fair wear and tear. So it’s process it has a lot of gray to it. And sounds in theory to be quite easy, but every property is different. Every person is different, the length of tenancy is different, the quality of materials of building is very different. So they all have a factor in that role of the property manager applies.

– which I suppose would be a benefit to your day to day. So at least it’s not the same thing every day. There’s a new challenge that you and your team have to sort of combat.

– Yeah, no two days are the same. ‘Cause again, every property is different. And what goes on externally in someone’s life can have a bearing on that particular day, or that particular week or that particular tenancy. So that’s also something that needs to be taken into account. What I’ve worked at is that you’ve gotta be able to streamline processes that are streamlined. And certain things like communication, is you can’t do it all by email or SMS. Picking up the telephone is probably one of the most vital roles that applies in property management. Because as much as you can write an email about a problem that might be occurring at a property, to go and view it and then make the phone call the owner, so then I have a bit more of an understanding can short circumvent the actual how long something takes to to get rectified or repaired, or situation sorted out. If, for example, the tenant might be without, one of the bathrooms for a while, maybe some and things like that. So there’s always different facets to it. A lot of it comes down to negotiation, to try and get a fair outcome for the owner, fair outcome for the tenant, but also in within legislation.

– Is there legislation around pets? We do get that question quite a bit.

– Yeah, at the moment in Queensland, pets are at the discretion of the owner. And obviously, then potentially some Body Corporate now. With that, in Queensland, you cannot take any pet bond and so you can only have normal pet bond, So–

– Really?

– Damage caused by tenants, potentially then the owner has to factor in with the acceptance of pets.

– What if an owner wants something like a pet bond?

– Can’t have it.

– They just can’t have it, interesting.

– In Queensland is that your maximum bond demand is four weeks rent, equivalent four weeks rent upto maximum. If you’re more than $700 per week, so $701 per week, you then can take six weeks, eight weeks rent whatever that you do like. So if it’s under $700 maximum four week, no pet bond, no additional rent, no additional bonds can be taken.

– Very interesting.

– Yeah, so there is stringent laws, which often self managed owners can trip themselves up on because no Act of government is easily written or easily understood, is not written in plain English. And they often refer back to parts to another section, to another section. But then incorporating that is what’s gone through QCAT or what’s gone through court, the potential then puts a precedence in place for that Act as well.

– So when it comes to the form side of things, is there a plethora of forms would be too hard to discuss or what would be the basic ones? ‘Cause we discussed inspections before, and in my understanding is there need to be forms on those inspections, you can’t just walk in the door. So can we summarize, or?

– Yeah, but obviously most forms are government issued and there is a whole number of forms and a number of accordingly and a lot of them are required by law, such as an injury condition report on what’s the property like when the tenant moves in which the tenants are then given a copy to then reply back within three days, or are there new changes to that report, and it’s signed off by an agent, owner and or tenant.

– That’s very important, that form and I would recommend that if an agent doesn’t give that to you and you’re a tenant, seek it, because– It’ll actually protect both of you.

– Yes, it’s actually law that’s actually gonna be good. More and more photographs are coming with that. Now that is a prescribed document or what it has to be done on that entry condition report. You cannot have a third party form, the government issue a form, that’s the only one referred to in the Act that is legal and bonding, when it comes to if it gets taken any further, should there be any dispute on the vacate. So if a tenant wants to then get an up and use that, when it goes to QCAT or if it goes further or to the RTA–

– Whoever–

– The Act is very specific, it needs to be on the prescribed document.

– Okay.

– But along with that, obviously, there’s a standard lease document, again, that is government. Often, institutions like the REIQ have some extra pages that go with that, that protect the rights or by tenants and owner. And along with that there’s entry notices and time frames for entry, for routine inspections or maintenance to be undertaken. Should an owner not comply with maintenance, a tenant can breach the owner and to the tenant not comply the lease, then the owner can breach the tenant. So there is a number of forms. And when it comes I suppose back to the process of say application forms, that really comes down to agency to agency, or what information they seek, but everything’s done under the Privacy Act. And the reason why application forms are done is a rental affordability is one of them, is to make sure that the tenants got the ability to afford the rent. You don’t put someone in a property and then not have the ability, and then they’re struggling from day one. It doesn’t benefit the tenant, doesn’t benefit the agent doesn’t benefit the owner. Also to make sure that their ledger from their previous rental history is in order to make sure that they did pay their rent on time, or if they were served any breach notices. So hence, references are checked, licenses, bank accounts, things like that, but all remains private. It’s really only for that application process. And most people understand that in the world today, to be able to prove who you are, to prove your have good nature, should be able to get into a rental property. I think if you can do that, you put yourself a long way in front of the queue, if it is a tight rental market.

– People are restricted to the amount of applications they put in across different properties?

– No.

– Cause it’s an agency thing.

– Yeah, you can put in applications all over the place, it doesn’t matter, it’s not gonna do any harm to you. And then you can take the first one that comes along or take the third one that comes along it, it really depends on the individual. Often from experience, tenants that particularly like one property, so they are a lot more focused on one to begin with, but I suppose it depends on their needs, their desires.

– Yeah.

– Maybe their partner and then they might want different places, and potentially which one comes up first becomes the one they take.

– The winner .

– There’s a whole lot of parts to that segment that really come the individual.

– Yeah, where can people find those forms? Is it on the REIQ website?

– Yeah.

– The annex–

– No, so with the annex is would be through the agent. The agent will provide application forms, the agent would be happy enough to provide copies of least documentation cause with all our tenants, they given a copy of the lease document to peruse, to read before they sign.

– Yeah.

– Because they are, it is a legal document of which that they are bound. So hence the understanding of it, the good part about those forms they are written in plain English, unlike the Act itself. So they are easy enough to follow. They’re not super complicated. They’re not in small fine print. It’s a pretty good document that is understandable by a person that may not have any experience in renting a property, can generally have a read of a lease document. And have a fairly good understanding in a short period of time.

– Okay, and before speaking to a property manager, what would you recommend? Or what would be your tips for people when they’re trying to locate the right property manager for them?

– So for as an owner?

– As an owner, yes.

– I think local is one good thing. Count the factors too, that is that they’re more likely to be driving past the property, they’re more likely to have other properties in the area. Which becomes them beneficial on rent reviews, ’cause they potentially know that market. And in large cities, you can have many markets across the city. So Gold Coast, you might have units being in demand where houses are, you might have Northern Colorado being in demand, in other areas not. So potentially that local knowledge goes a long way. And just simply being able to keep an eye on a property if someone’s parking on the front lawn. The other, are they keeping it really neat and tidy? And, that’s a good comment to pass on to your owner to understand yeah they really are, looking after the property. So that’s one advantages of being local. I think the experience of the property manager, because when it comes to it, a lot of property management is as much as you can have laws and understanding, I think reading between the lines becomes a big part of it, gut feeling becomes a part of it. Just going through the experiences and what you learn along the way, becomes a crucial part because you can read the theory of a textbook 25 times, you put it into practice, and throw that textbook out the window. And that’s where experience wins over textbook, every day of the week. Is there someone who is experienced to know what’s an emergency repair, what potential questions to ask your attendance got no power. Review then send it out. Just that they know, they don’t do it for free.

– Correct.

– It could be their toaster, it could just be the safety switch, so it might be a case of unplugging the toaster, getting a new toaster, re-flicking the, or just flicking the switch, putting a new toaster in, and the whole problem’s fixed and then it size it in in a call out phase. So that helps with that experience of a property manager that any theory in your textbooks never gonna cover. So and also the potential that the bookkeeping side of it. To make sure rent’s collected, and then it’s receipted and rent’s disbursed properly. Because when it comes to it, your rent becomes part of your taxation. And also on a tenant’s side of it, is when I vacate they are very much entitled to a rental ledger and have the efficiently given to them properly is a part that, making sure the bookkeeping of that agency is up to scratch.

– I didn’t even think it, that’s a very good point. How would someone check that though with the manager that they’re sort of interviewing, if you will, finding the right manager?

– Yeah, I suppose a lot of it comes from word of mouth. And I think if you’ve got your clients that have been here for a long time and happy with your service, they generally will be happy enough to speak to someone along those lines. Obviously, the review sites now are getting popular. So that gives another side of it. You can make inquiries through office of fair trial. Have there has been any prosecutions against an agent? Things like that go a long way to be able to get some reassurance because the agent’s dealing with a lot of money in the value of the asset of the property, but also substantial amounts of money in rental income that they are holding. So having someone you can trust to the middle longevity, and know that your money is secure, is I think a big part of it because there’s plenty of media and it’s easy enough to find out of agents that have done the wrong things by their trust accounts, and you really don’t wanna be on the end of that. Is that insurance or fidelity funds might pick up the tab, but from my experience, they take a long time for the owner to be given any money back in those instances, so longevity, making sure that, the cheapest is not always the best because property management, there is a key dollar that you need to pay your bills. Now, if you don’t have sufficient money, and it’s just a cut right? You’ve gotta cut your service, otherwise you go bankrupt. It’s just pure simple economics, is that the cheapest, ain’t the best. You need someone that does the right thing by you and your property, and I think that there’s enough resources out there for people to find things like that. And with property managers, they’re all licensed in Queensland, find out when their license was first issued, that’ll give you a good indication on the experience that they do hold. So there are some simple ways that people can confirm that now.

– Once again, doing your research. We’ve recently pressure on that quite a bit.

– If you don’t know something, got to go out and educate yourself. And whether that be reading or research, internet, whatever it is, is that education is probably the key in anything that you do, especially when you’re dealing with such an expensive asset as the property that you’ve just bought as an investment. ‘Cause most people are bought it to long term provide for their retirement, or it’s there to make the money. So it becomes a crucial part of their day to day income, or their long term future retirement plans.

– Yeah, wonderful. So I think we’ve covered off that particular question. The next part is gonna be mostly about your opinion on the state of the Gold Coast rental market. So this is once again, it’s opinion it changes every month and every week and every day. But sort of if we take the snapshot from today, here March 2019, what would you say would be the hot spots on the coast in the rental market at the moment?

– Yeah, hot spots. I think that those areas that have got infrastructure that’s either just being completed, hence like something like Westfield creamer?

– Yep.

– It is big infrastructure, lot of employment. I think that helps with the rentals in that area. The light rail that’s proposed to that corridor, I think will be a strong hotspot going forward. Because infrastructure creates work. It also creates new development that goes with it. Tenants like something nice and new and the comforts that go with that. So that’s area that I would be looking at, ’cause I think that’ll be attractive to tenants. And based Gulf Coast was, a lot of those new hotspots are generally all the suburbs, believe it or not. These are not like new in place, it’s places like Palm Beach. They’ve had huge changes in the new development going on there, even places like Broadbeach, they made a new development, the Mermaid Beach. And these original Gold Coast suburbs are potentially becoming your hotspots for people to rent because they can go downstairs, there’s transport, there’s cafes, there’s restaurants there is work on their doorstep, whether that be casino, a Convention Center, you’ve got some big employers, you’ve got Pacific Fairs, a big draw card, those things. Perfect, and people like convenience. And as time goes on, we get more time poor, they are hotspots. Your outer areas, as infrastructure creeps in, and often the development comes first, infrastructure comes second. So maybe that wave afterwards. But I think if you asked me today, I’d be looking at those established suburbs, where there is that renewal of property going on to where I’d be targeting if I was looking to get into the investment market. And now also looking for a long term investment, where I know I can attract a tenant if I’m prosperous.

– Great, that is great advice. Now, you specialize in the Mermaid Beach, Broadbeach areas 4218 post code areas specifically. So then what are the vacancy rates? I know that I’m on the market potentially, what are the vacancy rates at the moment?

– Yeah, so vacancy rates, we have seen rise over the last quarter.

– Yeah.

– To where we were probably what we call refer to the industry as a tight market. It was sub 2%, which means you had a lot of people turning up for properties, with very few opportunities and multiple tenant applications coming in. What we’ve seen is a fair few new developments come to being completed, which is put extra rental properties up facades. So the last quarter has seen an increase to a more balanced market, a few that will be short lived because the next wave of development completion is a wall off, and I think you’ll find that, with that strong migration and–

– Which isn’t slowing down, which is, it’s been crazy on the coast.

– And also, we’re seeing significant number of retirees from Brisbane. Now you think, are they gonna buy a house? But potentially, they might know where they wanna live initially. So they put their toe in the water and they’ll lease somewhere, okay, that’s an area like or don’t like or wanna be somewhere else versus go through buying. It gives you the ability for six or 12 months just to test the water. Is that where they really want to take–

– Their capital free? So then when they wanna move, they can move quickly.

– Exactly right, and make sure they’re making the right move because obviously purchasing a property with stamp duty can be a big expense.

– Correct.

– Where potentially the rental side of it, is an easier way if you’re not 100% sure, on that’s the side, or that’s a street or that’s the location that you wanna be there.

– Why are vacancy rates important for the investor?

– Obviously, the law of the vacancy rate will generally mean that does have an increase in rates. But when you’ve got a growing area, like the Gold Coast with new developments coming online, is you gonna have fluctuations. And I think tagging from quarter to quarter is a bit too of a short term approach, you probably gotta look year on year. And what we found is we’ve been driven by, an owner occupied market, purchasing after probably three to five years, which has put the squeeze on tenants, developments been a little wall catching up behind it. So hence that tenants are being pushed further out. I think of any changes in policy, if it does take a bullish negative gearing or increase the threshold for the capital gains tax returns, that could put super pressure on rents. And it will force tenants further and further out, to where there are new developments to where negative gearing is still able to be conducted. Where you’re in a city area or those closer, good infrastructure, a good restaurant or work will potentially be only left to the owner occupied.

– Beautiful, so Andrew we were talking about vacancy rates in the up and coming area side of things. Once again, we wouldn’t hold it to you because things change, but yeah, but where have you got your eye on? Where have you been speaking to people who are interested in these up and coming areas?

– Yeah, very much time. I think a lot of those established areas will continue to be strong. I think, given the flexibility of the workforce into the future, where a lot of people having that nine to five, Monday to Friday in the CBD office doesn’t exist as much as today that was 10 years ago, 10 years ago was the norm. Every person went to the office in Melbourne on Monday, and they finished on Friday, where now if you get a car and get to the airport Thursday night, Friday night, you’ll see the same faces coming back and forth, and then they’ll fly back on a Monday or the Sunday. So hence I don’t need to be here, or a lot of them will work different places so things are hot there. So that has a big potential for the Gold Coast going forward. The airport is a critical part of that. So in and around the airport, I guess going forward will have a significant increase in tenancy demand. But just demand in general by that person who doesn’t wanna sit in the capital city traffic for an hour and a half to get to work, an hour and a half to get home. When their flight time is less. By the time they can arrive back in Sydney on a Monday afternoon to go to work on the Tuesday. On the Monday morning they can run their whole management team office from the house on the Gold Coast is becoming it’s already there. I see it all the time where people are on big legal firms or big executives having Gold Coast homes, which the opponent residents are children in a school here. There wives are here. They’re spending three or four days a week here. And the capital city offices is where they base themselves for their couple of days a week, but they can really live on the move. Technology’s allowed for that.

– Correct.

– And the airport, allows that too. You still need face to face meetings. So they might have Skype, and other means are available.

– They assist.

– A lot of those high end meetings still need to be done eyeball to eyeball and that won’t go away. But again, they’re getting less and less.

– Yeah, that flexibility in the workplace. I think we’ve also identified that as an important point that will sort of hold the Gold Coast in good stead for the next few years ’cause you can go for a surf in the morning, or you can go for a hike in the morning. And then go get a coffee with very little hassle and then get on your laptop, work for five to 10 hours and then do it all again.

– Yeah, and I suppose one part of that it shows it to me is that if you look at the Gold Coast, got some of the best surgeons, in the whole country. The reason they’re based here, is they want the lifestyle here. And if people need certain surgery, they will travel here to get that done. And to me that nearly says it all. They’re here for the lifestyle to go with it, and people will come and see them. And that a lot of industries that will become the same going forward. And the Gold Coast has some of the best hospitals, it’s got some of the best education. It’s got a progressive Council. It’s got, I suppose a history of development. And going forward, that the majority of the population are right behind that, even the long term residents that have been here 40 or 50 years, like my family, they came to the Gold Coast, it was progressive. They moved here 40 or 50 years ago. They wanna still see it progress. And I think the majority of people wanna see that. They wanna see the change that goes with it. And I think as long as no one stands in their way if someone wants something more quieter, there are rural places, there are hideaways that they can escape to. But for us is that we’ve gotta keep, high on the tourist side of it. We’ve gotta keep that last or high as well. And I think the way we do that is to give people property where they wanna live. And we’ve gotta keep covering for the strong migration numbers that we’ve got. We don’t wanna close door like Nu_sac. That’s the last thing we want. It’s not about the Gold Coast. The Gold Coast is open, it’s open to everyone, every type of business and we want the development.

– And I think on that note, we’ll leave it there. There was a wonderful conversation. Don’t you think?

– Thank you very much, James.

– My pleasure.

– Enjoy it all.

– Thank you very much. Make sure you keep doing your research and stay tuned for more interviews, hopefully with Andrew in the next couple of months. And thank you for your time. We’ll talk to you soon.

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